Pages in topic:   [1 2 3] >
Is there a list of companies that ask for a test translation and never contact back the translator?
Thread poster: Didi18
Didi18
Didi18
United States
Local time: 05:04
English to Spanish
+ ...
Nov 15, 2020

I did "test translations" for two well-known companies. The translations were several hundred words, longer than what people here say it's OK (I did the translations before reading forum posts). One company called me back saying I came really close but their standards are so high, few people pass their test. They never provided any feedback. The second company never contacted me to let me know if they approved my translation or not.

I emailed the first company asking for the feedbac
... See more
I did "test translations" for two well-known companies. The translations were several hundred words, longer than what people here say it's OK (I did the translations before reading forum posts). One company called me back saying I came really close but their standards are so high, few people pass their test. They never provided any feedback. The second company never contacted me to let me know if they approved my translation or not.

I emailed the first company asking for the feedback. They replied in a very defensive manner that they'd already provided feedback (no, they didn't). I emailed the second company asking if they liked the translation. They never replied.

After reading some of the posts, I started wondering if my translations were used by those companies as pieces of a larger translation (using several translators who think they're being tested when in fact we're doing the actual work). I don't like the fact that neither company provided feedback.

Is there any list with names of companies that do this kind of thing? Something to warn other translators? I'd also like to know if there's a way to find out whether the companies used my work.

Thanks in advance.
Collapse


 
Elena Feriani
Elena Feriani
Italy
Local time: 13:04
Member
French to Italian
+ ...
Hi Nov 15, 2020

Didi18 wrote:

I'd also like to know if there's a way to find out whether the companies used my work.



Hi Didi,

The only way to know if they used your translation is to look it up on Google search (if it was meant for website). I'm not aware of lists of agencies that don't provide feedback, but if you become a paying member of Proz you'll have access to more information about companies in the BlueBoard, you'll be able to check their "reputation" before applying, and you will look more professional when they look you up.
It is normal, though, that some don't provide feed back, because they probably receive a lot of tests every day and have no interest in giving feedback to people that they're not going to hire.
I think 200-300 words is more than enough for free test. I have taken countless of these and I very rarely get feedback when I don't pass them.

EDIT: oops, I didn't notice you're a paying member already!

[Edited at 2020-11-15 08:53 GMT]


Didi18
satish krishna itikela
Johannah Morrison
marijaflora
expressisverbis
 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 13:04
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
List of companies vs. list of things to do Nov 15, 2020

Didi18 wrote:
Is there any list with names of companies that do this kind of thing? Something to warn other translators?


I think the appropriate warning to other translators here is not "here's a list of companies" but rather "here's a list of things you must do before accepting a test translation", and on that list would be things like "don't just assume that the client will give you feedback" or "the presence of a test doesn't mean the presence of a job" or "try to agree on a rate before doing a test translation" or "get the client to agree to your assumptions about ethical test translations before you do the test translation".

I understand that it may feel like you've been cheated, but this is like feeling cheated with no response after spending money on postage sending out résumés or getting no response after spending money on taking out an advertisement somewhere when the sales representative said "advertise here, and you're sure to get many responses".

I would love the Blue Board rules to be made a little more flexible so that translators can also report experiences with test translations, especially where outsourcers reneged on agreements made before the test translation (e.g. agreeing one rate before the test and then offering a different one after the test, or e.g. saying that the test is for the translation portion of a job and then offering the proofreading portion after the test, or even e.g. sending additional, unacceptable contracts to sign after the test with e.g. utterly unnecessary hold-harmless clauses in them), but that is not going to happen. And of course not having passed a test will never qualify for the Blue Board, due to the "no issues with quality" principle, since a failed test may imply by definition an issue with quality.


Eric Azevedo
Kuochoe Nikoi-Kotei
Philip Lees
Philippe Etienne
Becca Resnik
Didi18
satish krishna itikela
 
Christine Andersen
Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 13:04
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
Don't worry! Nov 15, 2020

I have very rarely received feedback after doing these tests.

One agency criticised the way I altered the syntax in sentences when I translated ... So I decided there was never going to be a good relationship between them and me. I continue to use normal target language syntax, which is not always the same as source-language syntax.

I never give references, so I have done small tests - around 200 words - for agencies now and then, but I rarely hear from them again.... See more
I have very rarely received feedback after doing these tests.

One agency criticised the way I altered the syntax in sentences when I translated ... So I decided there was never going to be a good relationship between them and me. I continue to use normal target language syntax, which is not always the same as source-language syntax.

I never give references, so I have done small tests - around 200 words - for agencies now and then, but I rarely hear from them again.

They probably do not use your translation anyway. The fragments used for most tests are too small to be much use. If you are asked to translate more than maximum 300 words, it is quite reasonable to ask for payment for the test.
I have proofread and helped to assess test translations for an agency. One series in particular were surprisingly different, ranging from impressive to hopeless, but most in the ´more or less usable´range. They were marketing, about 700-800 words. The agency selected the best two or three out of a dozen or more, and offered the translators work, but apart from acknowledging receipt of the translations and paying for them, I don´t think any feedback was sent to the others.

I have had occasional discussions about style over the years. Some clients like my style and have even waited for me to come home from holidays, because they did not want another translator to do their jobs.
So tests are not a waste of time, but do not worry too much if you are not chosen. Just keep trying, and good luck!
Collapse


Elena Feriani
Aline Amorim
Jane F
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Eric Azevedo
Michele Fauble
Kuochoe Nikoi-Kotei
 
Sadek_A
Sadek_A  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:04
English to Arabic
+ ...
..... Nov 15, 2020

Didi18 wrote:
I started wondering if my translations were used by those companies as pieces of a larger translation (using several translators who think they're being tested when in fact we're doing the actual work).

That's one of the worries. Another one is that it's being added to their MT library.


Elena Feriani wrote:
It is normal, though, that some don't provide feed back, because they probably receive a lot of tests every day and have no interest in giving feedback to people that they're not going to hire.

Sorry, but it is NOT normal at all, for the following reasons:
1- Whoever is in charge of grading the tests must justify their (pass/fail) decisions to the company for which the tests are being graded.
2- It's those who will be hired that do NOT need a feedback, because their only feedback would be "you're hired".
3- I was in charge of grading tests for one of the industry players. Part of my task was to provide precise, detailed justification for all the (fail) decisions I made.


Samuel Murray wrote:
"the presence of a test doesn't mean the presence of a job" or "try to agree on a rate before doing a test translation" or "get the client to agree to your assumptions about ethical test translations before you do the test translation"

Correct. The test-taker needs to establish some ground rules first.
Samuel Murray wrote:
I would love the Blue Board rules to be made a little more flexible so that translators can also report experiences with test translations, especially where outsourcers reneged on agreements made before the test translation (e.g. agreeing one rate before the test and then offering a different one after the test, or e.g. saying that the test is for the translation portion of a job and then offering the proofreading portion after the test, or even e.g. sending additional, unacceptable contracts to sign after the test with e.g. utterly unnecessary hold-harmless clauses in them)

That was a great suggestion; but, sadly, you took it back.


Eric Azevedo
Didi18
Johannah Morrison
 
IrinaN
IrinaN
United States
Local time: 07:04
English to Russian
+ ...
99% of them wouldn't, and why should they? Nov 15, 2020

Unless, of course, they will be ready to send you a job after your test.

Volumes have been written on poor and dishonest test practices but this is beside the point at the moment. It is our job to sort it out before wasting our time on such tests and agencies. As a minimum, before any tests you should have a clear idea of future earnings with them. Actually, some tests pay back in jobs in a year or two, it happens.

Didi18, even the best agencies are no college professo
... See more
Unless, of course, they will be ready to send you a job after your test.

Volumes have been written on poor and dishonest test practices but this is beside the point at the moment. It is our job to sort it out before wasting our time on such tests and agencies. As a minimum, before any tests you should have a clear idea of future earnings with them. Actually, some tests pay back in jobs in a year or two, it happens.

Didi18, even the best agencies are no college professors nurturing young talents. Agencies are there to make money. It takes between 30 seconds and 1 minute to determine if a test is good or bad in general or for the project at hand. That's all the time they will invest.

Can you imagine hundreds of tests arriving every week? At least half of them are atrocious but their creators will keep demanding feedbacks, explanations etc. They will not stop after 1 feedback and keep bombarding the agency with pages of "proof" and new questions demanding answers. Agencies will not pay their staff and freelance editors for hundreds of hours for this sort of activity.

You go to the store, pick up a piece of merchandise, examine it, put it back on a shelf when dissatisfied and keep going. You have no time to waste. No difference here

If you want a detailed feedback, enclose the check for editor's time. College is out, market is in.
Collapse


Marina Taffetani
Michele Fauble
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
Philip Lees
Philippe Etienne
Christine Andersen
Christopher Schröder
 
Lincoln Hui
Lincoln Hui  Identity Verified
Hong Kong
Local time: 20:04
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
Most of them Nov 15, 2020

Once I complete a test and send it off it disappears from my memory unless the agency gets back to me. I neither want nor need feedback; if I'm not absolutely certain that the test was completed at a top-notch quality, I should not be doing it at all.

There is nothing more annoying than having to do a back and forth of feedback and rebukes for a test translation, and I don't feel the need to encourage agencies to engage in that kind of practice.


Kevin Fulton
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
IrinaN
Philip Lees
Philippe Etienne
Christine Andersen
Didi18
 
Didi18
Didi18
United States
Local time: 05:04
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for your comments! Nov 16, 2020

Hi,

Thank you for your comments. They were really helpful.

I've done four tests so far.

The first one was for an agency and I didn't pass. They sent a detailed feedback of all the reasons I failed. Some of the reasons were that I used words than in some Spanish-speaking countries are fine, while in others they have a different connotation. It happens a lot. Also, words that are used in some countries as a masculine, in others are used with a feminine artic
... See more
Hi,

Thank you for your comments. They were really helpful.

I've done four tests so far.

The first one was for an agency and I didn't pass. They sent a detailed feedback of all the reasons I failed. Some of the reasons were that I used words than in some Spanish-speaking countries are fine, while in others they have a different connotation. It happens a lot. Also, words that are used in some countries as a masculine, in others are used with a feminine article. Example: the word "terminal". Depending on the country, it can be "el terminal" or "la terminal". I live in the US so I always try to use the Spanish spoken in Mexico unless the client tells me differently. This first agency wasn't from Mexico.

The second test was for an agency here in the US. I passed and work for them often.

The next two tests were not from translation agencies but from tech businesses. The tests were longer than 400 words each. The first one was snippets of video dialog and marketing materials. This is the company that called me back saying I almost passed. When I emailed about the feedback they wrote back that they'd already sent me the feedback, which they hadn't.

The second company is also a tech company. I had a few phone interviews, they offered to pay me hourly to proofread machine translation (MT). I agreed to their terms (all of this over the phone) and then they sent me the test. It turned out not to be a machine translation for me to proofread but something for me to translate. I did the translation and sent the test back with an email saying that what they sent me was text for me to translate, not to proofread. I've emailed them once asking whether I passed or failed but they never replied.

It's these last two companies that I wonder about, especially the second one. They offered me a job which I accepted, then sent the test, and then ... silence.

The suggestion that I look in their websites is a good one, I'll try to see if I find something. I also think it would be a good idea if we could write about our experiences with these tests so other people can be warned just in case.

I've never seen anybody paying for a test.

Thanks for your comments. If you have anything else you think might be useful, please post it.
Collapse


 
Sadek_A
Sadek_A  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:04
English to Arabic
+ ...
..... Nov 16, 2020

Didi18 wrote:
I also think it would be a good idea if we could write about our experiences with these tests so other people can be warned just in case.

I do too.
Didi18 wrote:
If you have anything else you think might be useful, please post it.

- Keep a record of all such companies, so that when you come across them again you can identify them and don't waste any time on them, even if their contact persons are changed.
- Establish some rules before taking the test.
- Don't accept tests and/or projects from generic (not company domain-based) email addresses.
- Demand a purchase order before delivering any translations.
- Stay away from multi-language job postings.


Didi18
Eric Azevedo
 
Didi18
Didi18
United States
Local time: 05:04
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
The last two jobs were multi-language job postings. Nov 16, 2020

Sadek_A wrote:

- Stay away from multi-language job postings.


The last two jobs were multi-language job postings. The last one is still advertising for translators in several languages.

Please let me know more why to stay away from multi-language job postings.

Shukran.


Elena Feriani
 
Sadek_A
Sadek_A  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:04
English to Arabic
+ ...
..... Nov 16, 2020

Didi18 wrote:
Please let me know more why to stay away from multi-language job postings.

Consider the following:
What kind of a project can possibly be needed in all these languages?
And, for what kind of an end-client?
Is the advertising company really big and connected enough to be working on such contracts?
Has the advertising company provided any believable (let alone, verifiable) information on said contract/project to warrant the least involvement/interest by the freelancer?
How often has the advertising company been engaging in such multi-language postings?
And, why do they keep looking for new people in the same languages over and over, if they have "already vetted & hired" successful candidates in the course of previous postings?

Once you answer these questions, you will realize that such postings are nothing but a dud!

Afwan (you're welcome).


Didi18
Eric Azevedo
 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Reality check Nov 16, 2020

For a couple of years, I checked test translations for a very serious agency in London that I'd grown out of price-wise. They paid me an hour to check each batch of one or two tests, so it's not like they weren't taking things seriously.

None were from complete jokers, so obviously the applicants had gone through some filter already. Even so, I think there was only one that was of a professional standard, out of maybe 30.

When quality levels are that low, and applicant
... See more
For a couple of years, I checked test translations for a very serious agency in London that I'd grown out of price-wise. They paid me an hour to check each batch of one or two tests, so it's not like they weren't taking things seriously.

None were from complete jokers, so obviously the applicants had gone through some filter already. Even so, I think there was only one that was of a professional standard, out of maybe 30.

When quality levels are that low, and applicant numbers and assessment costs so high, is it so surprising agencies don't give detailed feedback?

(I also cannot believe any agency would stitch together test translations and send them to a client, or enter them into some TM or MT corpus: they'd have to be crazy given the average standard of applicants.)

But not responding at all is plain rude.

As for paid tests, the first couple of jobs you do for any customer are just that
Collapse


Kevin Fulton
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
philgoddard
Christine Andersen
Johannah Morrison
 
Sadek_A
Sadek_A  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:04
English to Arabic
+ ...
..... Nov 16, 2020

Chris S wrote:
They paid me an hour to check each batch of one or two tests
and assessment costs so high

I can't imagine any company paying by the hour to have tests graded, given the grader is dealing with an unchangeable, short piece of source text with all its ins and outs under control and almost memorized. The practice is a fixed amount per test, nowhere near a quarter-hour pay anyway. Hence, relevant costs are really low, especially when the hire is enthusiastic and unwary, rate-wise.
Chris S wrote:
None were from complete jokers, so obviously the applicants had gone through some filter already.

I graded hundreds, right from the applicants; some were actually testing in groups, where you can see them all making the same mistakes in the same instances.
Chris S wrote:
(I also cannot believe any agency would stitch together test translations and send them to a client, or enter them into some TM or MT corpus: they'd have to be crazy given the average standard of applicants.)

You would be surprised. They can't help it! It's free, while the alternative costs money!


Didi18
 
Didi18
Didi18
United States
Local time: 05:04
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
These were not translation agencies, they were tech companies Nov 16, 2020

Chris S wrote:

For a couple of years, I checked test translations for a very serious agency in London that I'd grown out of price-wise. They paid me an hour to check each batch of one or two tests, so it's not like they weren't taking things seriously.

None were from complete jokers, so obviously the applicants had gone through some filter already. Even so, I think there was only one that was of a professional standard, out of maybe 30.

When quality levels are that low, and applicant numbers and assessment costs so high, is it so surprising agencies don't give detailed feedback?

(I also cannot believe any agency would stitch together test translations and send them to a client, or enter them into some TM or MT corpus: they'd have to be crazy given the average standard of applicants.)

But not responding at all is plain rude.

As for paid tests, the first couple of jobs you do for any customer are just that


Hi Chris,

The two companies I wonder about are not translation agencies but tech companies. One of them is constantly requesting translators in many languages for contract jobs. I went through the interview process, then the interviewer left a voice message saying they wanted to hire me and quoted me a figure. I called back and accepted. Then they sent the test. I was told they wanted me to proofread MT output, but the test was English to be translated to Spanish. I translated it and emailed it back, but wrote that this was a straight translation and not a proofreading job. I never heard again from them, even though I emailed them.

So the timeline goes like this: I applied, was interviewed by two different people, offered the job over the phone, I accepted over the phone (have nothing in writing), THEN they sent the test which turned out not to be a proofreading job but a direct translation, and I never heard back from them again after I sent the finished test translation back.

Is this a scam or normal?

Thanks.


 
Becca Resnik
Becca Resnik  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:04
Member
German to English
+ ...
Length of exams Nov 17, 2020

Didi18 wrote:

The next two tests were not from translation agencies but from tech businesses. The tests were longer than 400 words each.



I agree with quite a lot of what has been posted here and would just like to add one tip: I have had agencies send me tests of 400-600 words. In my eyes, 300 is fair, and I set that as limit for myself. Anything more, and I send a polite response explaining that their test is quite long for a free test, I usually only do tests ~300 words, etc. In every case, they have quickly responded that it's perfectly fine if I just translate the first 300 words, or some other modification they come back with. This practice has saved me hundreds of words of free work!

[Edited at 2020-11-17 04:47 GMT]


Didi18
Christopher Schröder
Kay Denney
Christine Andersen
Mervyn Henderson (X)
expressisverbis
 
Pages in topic:   [1 2 3] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:

Moderator(s) of this forum
Lucia Leszinsky[Call to this topic]

You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Is there a list of companies that ask for a test translation and never contact back the translator?







TM-Town
Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business

Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.

More info »
Trados Business Manager Lite
Create customer quotes and invoices from within Trados Studio

Trados Business Manager Lite helps to simplify and speed up some of the daily tasks, such as invoicing and reporting, associated with running your freelance translation business.

More info »