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Glossary entry

Dutch term or phrase:

heideven

English translation:

heathland pool

Added to glossary by Michael Beijer
Sep 6, 2013 08:26
10 yrs ago
Dutch term

heideven

Dutch to English Other Geography
Hi there

I am translating an academic text about the effects of nitrogen deposition on plant species. I came across this term in the following context:

'De gevolgen van zwavel en stikstofhoudende neerslag op de vegetatie in heide- en heideven-milieus.'

Could it be 'moorland fen'?

I'd appreciate any advice. Thanks.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 aquatic and terrestrial heathland vegetation
3 moorland pool
2 heath fen
References
source context is the title of an article
Change log

Sep 6, 2013 12:35: philgoddard changed "Field" from "Science" to "Other" , "Field (specific)" from "Botany" to "Geography"

Sep 13, 2013 19:07: Michael Beijer Created KOG entry

Discussion

Barend van Zadelhoff Sep 6, 2013:
Ven Summary about the Dutch 'vennen'

A fragment

Het zand werd nooit verder dan tot de zandondergrond weggestoven, zodat deze plassen ondiep bleven. Deze vennen kennen vaak een onafhankelijke “schijn-grondwaterspiegel”. Die kan veroorzaakt worden door “venlaagjes”, ontstaan uit afgestorven vegetatie, door een ondergrond met Brabantse leem of door podzol-achtige inspoelingslaagjes van humus of ijzer. Vaak is dit veelvoorkomende soort ven nogal vlak in doorsnede (schotelvormig) en soms vrij groot zodat er in de zomer brede droogvallende oevers ontstaan. Na een enkele regenbui kunnen ze plotseling aanzienlijk in oppervlakte toenemen. De meeste vennen bij Oisterwijk en op de Strabrechtse heide zijn van dit type.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ven_(water)
Barend van Zadelhoff Sep 6, 2013:
@ Michael And this is why?

And again, the real translation problem here, was that 'heidevenmilieu' implied a larger - moorland/heathland - area with a number of pools.

Which I solved.
Michael Beijer Sep 6, 2013:
@Barend: I’m not saying your answer is wrong (apart from the 'moorland' part). I think all three are correct.

However, 'in the environments of the moorland and moorland pool areas' just doesn't sound quite right in my ears. In terms of it being well-written English I mean, not in terms of its content.
Barend van Zadelhoff Sep 6, 2013:
I doubt whether the term 'aquatic' is equivalent with 'here and there a pool'.

Please have a look at the pictures through the links in my answer.

And these guys are no experts? :

Environmental changes in the Oisterwijk moorland pool area

see this link and other links below.

And what is wrong with my suggestion', except perhaps 'moorland'? :

.. in the environments of the moorland and moorland pool areas

You can always rephrase things, but the question is, is this necessary and is it superior?

And, as I said:

The real translation problem here, was that 'heidevenmilieu' implied a larger - moorland/heathland - area with a number of pools.

That's why I translated it as

.. in the environments of the moorland and moorland pool areas
Michael Beijer Sep 6, 2013:
@Barend: Have you seen this:

1. 'The effect of airborne sulphur and nitrogen deposition on aquatic and terrestrial heathland vegetation. by J. G. M. Roelofs

Summary
As research on the effects of acidification on healthlands is scarce, the data discussed mainly concern western Europe and particularly the Netherlands. The change from heather into grass dominated healthlands appeared to be caused by the high atmospheric nitrogen enrichment. (...)' (http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02118618 )

which seems to me to be a translation of:

2. 'Roelofs J.G.M., L.G.M. Clasquin, I.M.C. Driessen & A.J. Kempers 1984. De gevolgen van zwavel en stikstofhoudende neerslag op de vegetatie in heide- en heideven-milieus. In: E.H. Adema and J. van Ham, Editors, Proc. Symp. Zure Regen, 's-Hertogenbosch 17–18 November 1983, Zure Regen, oorzaken, effecten en beleid, Pudoc, Wageningen.' (http://goo.gl/7w4tqn )

It's the same author.
Barend van Zadelhoff Sep 6, 2013:
I doubt whether the term 'aquatic' is equivalent with 'here and there a pool'.

And these guys are no experts? :

Environmental changes in the Oisterwijk moorland pool area

see this link and other links below.

And waht ius wrong with my suggestion', except perhaps 'moorland? :

.. in the environments of the moorland and moorland pool areas

Have a look at pictures through the links in my answer.
Michael Beijer Sep 6, 2013:
The word 'heideven' can be translated as: Either:

1. 'heathland pools', in: 'The effects of sulphur and nitrogen deposition on vegetation present in heathland pools and heathland areas.'

or

2. the 'aquatic' part of 'aquatic (..) heathland vegetation', in: 'The effect of airborne sulphur and nitrogen deposition on aquatic and terrestrial heathland vegetation.'

Both are correct.
Michael Beijer Sep 6, 2013:
Hi Barend, here is my reasoning. I had initially translated it as:

De gevolgen van zwavel en stikstofhoudende neerslag op de vegetatie in heide- en heideven-milieus.
=
The effects of sulphur and nitrogen deposition on vegetation present in heathland pools and heathland areas.

However, then I found the author's own translation and thought that that might be better, seeing as how he is the expert.

You asked:

Where are the 'heidevennen/pools'?

– the 'heidevennen' are present in the 'aquatic' part of 'aquatic (..) heathland vegetation'

Where is the 'milieu/environment'?

– 'milieu' is implied in the sentence: 'The effect of airborne sulphur and nitrogen deposition on aquatic and terrestrial heathland vegetation.'

I think both my initial translation and the translation based on the author's own version mean the same thing:

mine: The effects of sulphur and nitrogen deposition on vegetation present in heathland pools and heathland areas.
author's: The effect of airborne sulphur and nitrogen deposition on aquatic and terrestrial heathland vegetation.

I.e., 'vegetation present in heathland pools and heathland areas' = 'aquatic and terrestrial heathland vegetation'
Barend van Zadelhoff Sep 6, 2013:
Michael, you are just translating a different/sentence or text with similar elements.
Barend van Zadelhoff Sep 6, 2013:
The real translation problem here, for that matter, was that 'heidevenmilieu' implied a larger - moorland/heathland - area with a number of pools.

That's why I translated it as

.. in the environments of the moorland and moorland pool areas

Since the source text says 'milieu' and since nothing is wrong with 'environment', I think it only obvious to use environment here.
Michael Beijer Sep 6, 2013:
=> 'de vegetatie in heide- en heideven-milieus' = 'aquatic and terrestrial heathland vegetation'
Michael Beijer Sep 6, 2013:
Compare: 'Roelofs J.G.M., L.G.M. Clasquin, I.M.C. Driessen & A.J. Kempers 1984. De gevolgen van zwavel en stikstofhoudende neerslag op de vegetatie in heide- en heideven-milieus. In: E.H. Adema and J. van Ham, Editors, Proc. Symp. Zure Regen, 's-Hertogenbosch 17–18 November 1983, Zure Regen, oorzaken, effecten en beleid, Pudoc, Wageningen.' (http://goo.gl/7w4tqn )

AND

'The effect of airborne sulphur and nitrogen deposition on aquatic and terrestrial heathland vegetation. by J. G. M. Roelofs

Summary
As research on the effects of acidification on healthlands is scarce, the data discussed mainly concern western Europe and particularly the Netherlands. The change from heather into grass dominated healthlands appeared to be caused by the high atmospheric nitrogen enrichment. (...)' (http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02118618 )

-----------------------------*
Before I found these two articles, I had actually come up with:

De gevolgen van zwavel en stikstofhoudende neerslag op de vegetatie in heide- en heideven-milieus.
=
The effects of sulphur and nitrogen deposition on vegetation present in heathland pools and heathland areas.
Barend van Zadelhoff Sep 6, 2013:
van Dale I used 'moorland' since:

heide - heath(land)
voornamelijk Brits-Engels --> moor(land)

Also, this was used in my reference: 'Oisterwijk moorland pool area'.

Otherwise replace 'moorland' with 'heathland', that is:

.. in the environments of the moorland and moorland pool areas

-->

.. in the environments of the heathland and heathland pool areas

Changes in the moorland pools near Oisterwijk between 1840 and 1975
in: Aquatic ecology , ISSN 1573-5125, Vol. 12 (1. 1978), p. 54-55

http://finden.nationallizenzen.de/Record/ZDB-1-SOJ@19280121X
Michael Beijer Sep 6, 2013:
Van Dale: ven, het

1. (meertje)

mere
pool (klein)
hollow (droog)

2. (door uitvening ontstane plas)

pool
pit (flooded)
broad (in Oost-Engeland)
Michael Beijer Sep 6, 2013:
dictionaries GWIT:
heideveld = calcareous heath
ven = pool; hollow

OGL:
heideveld = heath, heathland
ven = pool

=> 'calcareous pool' or 'calcareous hollow' / 'heathland pool' (if its wet) or "heathland hollow" (if its dry)

See:

✪ https://www.google.co.uk/search?safe=off&rlz=1C1PRFB_enGB534... (Google search for "calcareous pool")

✪ https://www.google.co.uk/search?safe=off&rlz=1C1PRFB_enGB534... (Google search for "calcareous hollow")

Proposed translations

+1
4 hrs
Dutch term (edited): de vegetatie in heide- en *heideven*-milieus
Selected

aquatic and terrestrial heathland vegetation

See my Discussion entries and Reference comment.

The word 'heideven', in this context, can be translated as:

de vegetatie in heide- en heideven-milieus = aquatic and terrestrial heathland vegetation



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2013-09-06 12:39:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

GWIT:
heideveld = calcareous heath
ven = pool; hollow

OGL:
heideveld = heath, heathland
ven = pool

=> 'calcareous pool' or 'calcareous hollow' / 'heathland pool' (if its wet) or "heathland hollow" (if its dry)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2013-09-06 12:39:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Van Dale:

ven, het

1. (meertje)

mere
pool (klein)
hollow (droog)

2. (door uitvening ontstane plas)

pool
pit (flooded)
broad (in Oost-Engeland)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2013-09-06 13:51:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

✪ The individual word 'heideven' can be translated as:

Either:

1. 'heathland pools', in: 'The effects of sulphur and nitrogen deposition on vegetation present in heathland pools and heathland areas.'

or

2. the 'aquatic' part of 'aquatic (..) heathland vegetation', in: 'The effect of airborne sulphur and nitrogen deposition on aquatic and terrestrial heathland vegetation.'

Both are correct.

Note that in the second option, the term 'heideven-milieus' is implied in 'aquatic heathland vegetation'. After all, this 'aquatic heathland vegetation' has to grow somewhere, right?
Peer comment(s):
neutral Barend van Zadelhoff : Where are the 'heidevennen/pools'? Where is the 'milieu/environment'?
43 mins
See my discussion entry.
agree Lianne van de Ven
1 hr
Thanks Lianne!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks so much to everyone for the very helpful feedback!"
1 hr

moorland pool

....heide- en heideven-milieus.

... in the environments of the moorland and moorland pool areas.


Environmental changes in the Oisterwijk moorland pool area, evident from the composition of the desmid flora.

The moorland pools in the region of the SE of Oisterwijk have an established reputation among Dutch hydrobiologists. This fame is to a large extent attributable to the extensive surveys of the desmid flora by Professor J. Heimans in the period between 1916 and 1925. His studies revealed an exceptional opulence of this algal group viz., a total of 250 species among which quite a number not recorded from any other locality in the Netherlands and also to be included among the rarities in a larger geographical region.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02260793

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2013-09-06 10:02:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

examples of 'heidevennen':

http://tinyurl.com/lynz5mu

http://tinyurl.com/mxo52v4

http://tinyurl.com/klzs96z

http://tinyurl.com/mkcsoom
Peer comment(s):
neutral Michael Beijer : heathland pool? see e.g.: 'There are some clear differences between heath and moorland. (...)' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heath
1 hr
I don't know how strict this difference really is but otherwise 'heathland pool' may be used. Thank you.
Something went wrong...
1 hr

heath fen

http://www.redbubble.com/shop/gaia landscapes heath fen phot...

http://www.pbase.com/corotauria/veluwe

or heather moorland fen

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 uren (2013-09-06 10:32:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Moorland is generally related to high-ground heaths[1] with — specially in Great Britain — a cooler and damper climate."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathland

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 uren (2013-09-06 12:34:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Heathland_pool_north_...

->heathland pool
Peer comment(s):
neutral Michael Beijer : Although on its own, 'heideven' is best translated as 'heathland pool', in the asker's specific context, 'aquatic and terrestrial heathland vegetation' would be better. See my answer below.
2 hrs
Wellicht heb je gelijk maar jouw oplossing past niet echt goed in het glossarium... bovendien moet Asker ook nog wat te doen hebben!
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

3 hrs
Reference:

source context is the title of an article

Roelofs J.G.M., L.G.M. Clasquin, I.M.C. Driessen & A.J. Kempers 1984. De gevolgen van zwavel en stikstofhoudende neerslag op de vegetatie in heide- en heideven-milieus. In: E.H. Adema and J. van Ham, Editors, Proc. Symp. Zure Regen, 's-Hertogenbosch 17–18 November 1983, Zure Regen, oorzaken, effecten en beleid, Pudoc, Wageningen. (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web...
Reference:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CEYQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpas.natura2000.nl%2Ffiles%2Fdeel_i_literatu

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