| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Why answer Kudoz questions? Or why not? Thread poster: Marinus Vesseur
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Peter Linton (X) 
Local time: 16:42
Swedish to English
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| . . . in answer to Ailish Maher | May 22, 2005 |
ASK or ANSWERS - I don't actually know, as I am not an outsourcer, but my guess (based on what outsources have said at conferences etc) is that what they appreciate is a chance to get a better feel for the kind of questions and indeed answers that a translator enters. So I'm sure you are right to suppose that people who ask simple questions, or answer with no more than simple dictionary answers, are doing themselves no favours. It deters outsourcers.
Pari passu, a translator who giv... See more ASK or ANSWERS - I don't actually know, as I am not an outsourcer, but my guess (based on what outsources have said at conferences etc) is that what they appreciate is a chance to get a better feel for the kind of questions and indeed answers that a translator enters. So I'm sure you are right to suppose that people who ask simple questions, or answer with no more than simple dictionary answers, are doing themselves no favours. It deters outsourcers.
Pari passu, a translator who gives well-researched answers, perhaps with some commentary to put things in perspective, is demonstrating skills and subject knowledge that might appeal to the outsourcer.
You say also "I don't see how an answer in ProZ.com will be representative of writing skills." Let me suggest an asnwer.
One thing that always surprises me about my fellow-Prozzers is that they tend to think of the site almost as a private one for translators, where they can research words and chat with colleagues within the business - as you put it 'among friends'. Nothing wrong with that. But one key purpose of ProZ is to be a showcase for our skills. Outsourcers are, as it were, looking over our shoulders to see if we are any good for their projects. One way to achieve that is to ask intelligent questions, and to give accurate, wide-ranging, detailed and helpful answers - for the benefit not just of a colleague but for those inquisitive outsourcers.
So I think it pays to write your ProZ questions and answers with as much skill as you devote to your translations. Have I persuaded you? ▲ Collapse
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Janfri wrote:
I answer kudoz questions because:
- I can.
- I have fun answering.
- I love point grabbing.
- I like competition.
- It is positive for my translation skills.
- I don't like TV.
So basically my motivation is egoistical.
Helping other people makes me seem a generous person and that is also excellent for my ego.
Cheers
Janfri
My sentiments exactly (especially the bit about TV) - the added bonus of gaining new clients as suggested by the others is one that I can confirm and certainly well worth the bother.
| | | | Mats Wiman
Sweden
Local time: 17:42
Member (2000)
German to Swedish
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In memoriam | Lia Fail (X)
Spain
Local time: 17:42
Spanish to English
+ ...
| indeed you have! | May 22, 2005 |
Peter Linton wrote:
One thing that always surprises me about my fellow-Prozzers is that they tend to think of the site almost as a private one for translators, where they can research words and chat with colleagues within the business - as you put it 'among friends'. Nothing wrong with that. But one key purpose of ProZ is to be a showcase for our skills. Outsourcers are, as it were, looking over our shoulders to see if we are any good for their projects. One way to achieve that is to ask intelligent questions, and to give accurate, wide-ranging, detailed and helpful answers - for the benefit not just of a colleague but for those inquisitive outsourcers.
So I think it pays to write your ProZ questions and answers with as much skill as you devote to your translations. Have I persuaded you?
In fact, TWO people on the SAME day for the FIRST time ever since I have been using Proz, pointed out my dyslexic spelling of 'becuase', just the other day, and privately. I was very surprised at the coincidence.
Of course you are right, and they too, of course. However, it was a while before it sunk in that Forums are also available for perusal (I think)
The reason for my poor spelling 'among friends' is I'm in a hurry, or sometimes SO tired that my fingers can barely lift themselves off the keys, or even a bit tipsy after a well-deserved drink after a long day's work:-)
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Klaus Herrmann
Germany
Local time: 17:42
Member (2002)
English to German
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| Here's why I cut down on answering | May 22, 2005 |
My reasons why I used to participate in the KudoZ section:
At first, it was a naïve feeling of "Hey, I know that". I'm glad to help, and it's a healthier distraction from a current job than lighting yet another cigarette.
I was fascinated with the sheer amount of talent and expertise to be found in the Kudoz section. Even after 20+ years in business there was a lot I've been able to learn from questions and answers. Reason enough to participate, as I do believe in gi... See more My reasons why I used to participate in the KudoZ section:
At first, it was a naïve feeling of "Hey, I know that". I'm glad to help, and it's a healthier distraction from a current job than lighting yet another cigarette.
I was fascinated with the sheer amount of talent and expertise to be found in the Kudoz section. Even after 20+ years in business there was a lot I've been able to learn from questions and answers. Reason enough to participate, as I do believe in give & take.
There was a time when good answers developed through team effort. This was the most enjoyable period KudoZ had in my IMHO.
I enjoyed getting these "Thank you, your answer really helped me" messages, for two reasons: recognition is always nice, and it tells me that I haven't been wasting my time.
And finally, it's an intellectual challenge, plain fun thus.
Most of the reasons why I don't answer as many questions as before are founded in the direction "my" SC took. Time permitting, I will get into greater detail in the German section (where this thread has been posted as well). So, in no particular order:
- I'm glad to help, but I don't like to be taken advantage of (key words: Q/A ratio, abuse)
- I don't like the competitive spirit that has been developing in my SC. There's an almost perfect answer, and instead of adding a peer comment, another (essentially identical) answer is being added. Recently, this has been on the rise in my SC.
- Askers asking a significant amount of questions from an area they claim as there field of expertise ("automotive" translators asking what's a tire, etc). As mentioned above, I liked the confirmation from askers that I wasn't wasting my time. By the same token, if the asker doesn't know **** about the field he's working in, I'm just wasting my time.
- Answerers with an over-optimistic "Can do" approach. But this has been improving, lately.
- Too many "no context" questions.
- Language-specific: People allegedly translating into German but unable to produce German special characters on their keyboard.
Bottom line: I'm sure that as soon as the quality of the questions will improve, participation will increase again. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Peter Linton (X)
Local time: 16:42
Swedish to English
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| Klaus, here's why you should not cut down on answering | May 22, 2005 |
Klaus, I translate German to English, and I have benefited from your answers. So let me persuade you why you should continue to contribute.
I think in fact you have answered your own question. You say "I'm sure that as soon as the quality of the questions will improvein, participation will increase again."
In English we would call that a "chicken and egg" question - which came first? Surely the answer is that if you take part and increase the quality of questions, then ... See more Klaus, I translate German to English, and I have benefited from your answers. So let me persuade you why you should continue to contribute.
I think in fact you have answered your own question. You say "I'm sure that as soon as the quality of the questions will improvein, participation will increase again."
In English we would call that a "chicken and egg" question - which came first? Surely the answer is that if you take part and increase the quality of questions, then participation will also increase - which in turn will increase the quality of the questions - and that will increase participation, and so on. As we say in English, "a virtuous circle".
Of course there are irritations - people asking naive questions, making exaggerated claims, failing to give enough context, entering answers or comments just to gain points. But these are all petty things to be ignored. A translator with your skills and experience should be prepared to tolerate lesser translators, and focus on the good points in KudoZ. Among all the dross there are occasional nuggets of gold - really worthwhile answers and contributions. At the end of the day, it's all a question of, as you rightly say, "give and take". ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mats Wiman
Sweden
Local time: 17:42
Member (2000)
German to Swedish
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In memoriam | Brilliant arguing, Peter! | May 22, 2005 |
Peter Linton wrote:
As we say in English, "a virtuous circle".
Of course there are irritations - .... But these are all petty things to be ignored. A translator with your skills and experience should be prepared to tolerate lesser translators, and focus on the good points in KudoZ. Among all the dross there are occasional nuggets of gold - really worthwhile answers and contributions.
To me a very and intelligent variation of my 'disregard it as best you can'.
The sum and average of the KudoZ system is gold and an unsurpassed linguistic exercise.
Mats
| | | | | Can’t some see the wood for the trees? | May 22, 2005 |
Ailish Maher wrote:
In fact, TWO people on the SAME day for the FIRST time ever since I have been using Proz, pointed out my dyslexic spelling of 'becuase', just the other day, and privately. I was very surprised at the coincidence.
...The reason for my poor spelling 'among friends' is I'm in a hurry, or sometimes SO tired that my fingers can barely lift themselves off the keys, or even a bit tipsy after a well-deserved drink after a long day's work:-)
It happened to me yesterday: I read a question from a colleague who wrote "respecto" instead of "respeto" and "respectado" instead of "respetado" but I said nothing. I am pretty sure someone would have absolutely disagreed with her. I understood she was tired or in a hurry and said nothing.
Nor neutral or disagree.
I wouldn't have sent her a private email about it. Absolutely unnecessary. We are translating. Not competing.
We are not children... are we?
Regards.
Inés
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Lia Fail (X)
Spain
Local time: 17:42
Spanish to English
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Ines Garcia Botana wrote: Ailish Maher wrote:
In fact, TWO people on the SAME day for the FIRST time ever since I have been using Proz, pointed out my dyslexic spelling of 'becuase', just the other day, and privately. I was very surprised at the coincidence.
...The reason for my poor spelling 'among friends' is I'm in a hurry, or sometimes SO tired that my fingers can barely lift themselves off the keys, or even a bit tipsy after a well-deserved drink after a long day's work:-)
It happened to me yesterday: I read a question from a colleague who wrote "respecto" instead of "respeto" and "respectado" instead of "respetado" but I said nothing. I am pretty sure someone would have absolutely disagreed with her. I understood she was tired or in a hurry and said nothing. Nor neutral or disagree. I wouldn't have sent her a private email about it. Absolutely unnecessary. We are translating. Not competing. We are not children... are we? Regards. Inés
I wasn't offended, just surprised it took so long for someone to point out the error of my ways to me...one gets away with very little in ProZ:-)
Thank Inés, despite my lapses in my 'private' life, I am very conscientious in my professional life, although I do accept Peter's point, about showcases and all that, so am really making an effort:-)
| | | | Klaus Herrmann
Germany
Local time: 17:42
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
| Applying the "golden rule" | May 22, 2005 |
Peter Linton wrote:
Klaus, I translate German to English, and I have benefited from your answers. So let me persuade you why you should continue to contribute.
Thank you, Peter. I have been continuing to contribute, but I am more picky as to which question I care to answer.
A translator with your skills and experience should be prepared to tolerate lesser translators, and focus on the good points in KudoZ.
There are less experienced translators, but so was I when I started out. There are less skilled translators in my field of expertise, but then, I'm no good at legal or financial texts. So, lesser translators isn't a category I'm thinking in.
You say "I'm sure that as soon as the quality of the questions will improvein, participation will increase again. In English we would call that a "chicken and egg" question - which came first? I'd love to believe that you're right, but I can't imagine that a decent answer to say, a context-free question would make the asker give more context the next time around.
Of course there are irritations - people asking naive questions, making exaggerated claims, failing to give enough context, entering answers or comments just to gain points. But these are all petty things to be ignored. But that's exactly what I'm doing – ignoring these questions and answers. Result: fewer answers. In a way, this "applying the golden rule" is quite frustrating (but not the issue of this thread) as it's more of giving up than contributing to improvement which I would have preferred.
| | | | lien
Netherlands
Local time: 17:42
English to French
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Marinus Vesseur wrote:
My observation is that in comparison with the amount of ProZ members there are not many who participate in answering (and some have stopped). If that is so, it would be good to know what the incentives of active 'Kudists' are
I'm curious about your reactions.[/quote]
The game. The mind game.
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 21:12
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | The life cycle of a compulsive kudoz answerer | May 23, 2005 |
When a member registers for the first time and looks around the site, he soon discovers the kudoz network. It has the same effect on him as a new toy on a child. He is fascinated, he is obsessed by it and tends to answer every question that is asked in his pairs, even those where it would have been much more prudent to have held his tongue. Soon peer comments come in and the new enthusiast receives such a drubbing for his half-baked, unsupported, ill thought out answers that he is a much chasten... See more When a member registers for the first time and looks around the site, he soon discovers the kudoz network. It has the same effect on him as a new toy on a child. He is fascinated, he is obsessed by it and tends to answer every question that is asked in his pairs, even those where it would have been much more prudent to have held his tongue. Soon peer comments come in and the new enthusiast receives such a drubbing for his half-baked, unsupported, ill thought out answers that he is a much chastened man.
But kudoz is still a challenge to him. He determines to show all those “critics” out there that he is no push over. He takes more care with his answers now, does painstaking research, brings in his experience with the language and expertise in the subject and enters what he thinks are master-pieces worthy of a Nobel Prize. Two days later (or two hours later) he comes back to his answer, smug in his confidence that he would have received a string of “agrees” and may even the coveted “kudoz” points.
And what a shock he gets! His answer has been twisted out of context and brutally commented upon, often by those who have put in competing (and inferior) answers. And much inferior answers to his have received a string of “agrees” backed by sycophantic commendations. He recognizes very well each one of the “agreers” of his opponents; it is usually the same set of cronies for each answerer. The final blow comes when the kudoz point is awarded, and it is not his answer that has been chosen, but a commonplace answer, one that has been put forth either by a prominent member of the forum or by one of the cronies of the asker. He is crestfallen. He gets so disgusted with the whole thing that he swears never to touch kudoz questions with a barge pole.
Does he stick to his resolution though? Not all. For kudoz is addictive, it is like solving a crossword puzzle; it tests your mettle, prevents your language skills from rusting, and is a wee bit of an ego booster. But our compulsive answerer is an enlightened man now. He takes his kudoz in moderation and avoids all controversy. He is picky and choosey about what he answers. He participates for his own pleasure and gratification and is little bothered by “agrees” and “disagrees” or even by the kudoz points he earns or misses.
[Edited at 2005-05-23 08:57] ▲ Collapse
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| Damaging one's own business interest ? | May 23, 2005 |
one could possibly be damaging one's own business interests.
I disagree. Most of the time people who don't know enough to do the job don't know enough to pick the right answer.
Cheers,
Béa
| | | | Latin_Hellas (X)
United States
Local time: 17:42
Italian to English
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| Time and some frustration | May 23, 2005 |
Dear Colleagues,
It is interesting to see how this topic has generated plenty of responses.
I too will take the time out to contribute, seconding those who cite time as a major reason for not answering Kudos questions: in part because of the success of Proz.com, some of us are fully booked and barely have time for anything else but serving our customers. Any other major reason, again already cited, is frustration in seeing some answers that are patently wrong being ... See more Dear Colleagues,
It is interesting to see how this topic has generated plenty of responses.
I too will take the time out to contribute, seconding those who cite time as a major reason for not answering Kudos questions: in part because of the success of Proz.com, some of us are fully booked and barely have time for anything else but serving our customers. Any other major reason, again already cited, is frustration in seeing some answers that are patently wrong being accepted right off the bat: life is very short, and there's no time for fussing and fighting, my friends.
Nonetheless, I try to help if I see that it's a question that does not already have an answer and I myself can answer it quickly with a large degree of professional confidence.
Best wishes to all,
bale002 ▲ Collapse
| | | | ------ (X)
German to Spanish
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| Too much money | May 23, 2005 |
[quote]bale002 wrote:
"some of us are fully booked and barely have time for anything else but serving our customers."
I wonder what the fully booked colleagues do with all that money. When I work, I translate at least 5000 words a day. On some weekends I translate 20.000 between friday and monday morning. I do this job job because it permits me to work maximum 10 days a month or even less and the rest stay with my family, enjoy myself, waste my time with kudoz questions etc.
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