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Why most rates proposed and/or expected by potential clients are below ProZ "Average rates"?
投稿者: CARLIER BRUNO

CARLIER BRUNO
フランス
Local time: 13:43
Feb 2021に入会
英語 から フランス語
+ ...
Mar 25

Why are most of the rates proposed and/or expected by potential clients are below ProZ "Average rates reported by language pair"?

And still, I don't believe that ProZ is a platform for cut-price translation services...

Yet, there are so many professionals and so few offers, that agencies know they can easily bring the prices down while preserving a good level of delivery (?)

Am I on the wrong market place? Sort of a crowded and starving translation platform
... See more
Why are most of the rates proposed and/or expected by potential clients are below ProZ "Average rates reported by language pair"?

And still, I don't believe that ProZ is a platform for cut-price translation services...

Yet, there are so many professionals and so few offers, that agencies know they can easily bring the prices down while preserving a good level of delivery (?)

Am I on the wrong market place? Sort of a crowded and starving translation platform?

I don't think so, but what is the logic in all that and what are the decryption keys ?



[Modifié le 2021-03-25 15:45 GMT]
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Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
デンマーク
Local time: 13:43
2003に入会
デンマーク語 から 英語
+ ...
The well-paid jobs are not so visible Mar 25

I never go below the average rate for my language pair, and most of my clients find me through my profile.
This is true of many users of this site.

The best clients find translators through the directories, and then they negotiate directly about rates, deadlines and whatever else needs to be arranged. Repeat jobs, where the same client and translator work together again, will not involve Proz.com at all, but when both are happy with the arrangement, the rate will often be abov
... See more
I never go below the average rate for my language pair, and most of my clients find me through my profile.
This is true of many users of this site.

The best clients find translators through the directories, and then they negotiate directly about rates, deadlines and whatever else needs to be arranged. Repeat jobs, where the same client and translator work together again, will not involve Proz.com at all, but when both are happy with the arrangement, the rate will often be above the average.

The rates many translators state on their profiles are not visible, but they are used to filter offers that will not be accepted, and the rates are counted in the statistics to calculate the average. Mine are like that - above average but invisible.

In fact, my rates vary quite a lot, depending on the type of job and possibly the client as well which is why I do not show them.

This site is a market place where outsourcers and translators find each other, and then arrange terms between them.
It should really be the translator who sets the rate. There are not many professions where the customer comes in and dictates the price. Agencies have their standard budgets, nevertheless, so they often suggest a rate. The translator is still free to negotiate or turn it down!

The way to get well-paid jobs is to fill in your profile, make yourself visible, and let the good clients find you.
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Teresa Borges
Samuel Murray
Adam Jarczyk
CARLIER BRUNO
Philippe Etienne
ahartje
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
 

Teresa Borges
ポルトガル
Local time: 12:43
2007に入会
英語 から ポルトガル語
+ ...
@Bruno Mar 25

That’s not my experience at all. There are all kinds of agencies (and of translators) out there. Some posted jobs pay well and some pay peanuts, some clients who contact me via a directory search pay what I ask and others offer me close to nothing. That’s the name of the game! You just have to stand out from the crowd and clients will find you…

Christine Andersen
CARLIER BRUNO
Philippe Etienne
ahartje
Christel Zipfel
Philip Lees
Bali D.
 

Sadek_A  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:43
英語 から アラビア語
+ ...
Reconsider "many professionals"! Mar 25

The professional is the person that (1)provides quality work (2)on their ***OWN***, based on (3)a relevant (thusly, language) degree and (4)excellence in performance.

However, a considerable number of 'dealers' in the sector are (1)providing substandard work (2)through others in many cases, based on (3) laughably unrelated degrees (if any at all) and (4)feeding client what client is feeding them.

Any given person with minimum knowledge of a foreign language can brand th
... See more
The professional is the person that (1)provides quality work (2)on their ***OWN***, based on (3)a relevant (thusly, language) degree and (4)excellence in performance.

However, a considerable number of 'dealers' in the sector are (1)providing substandard work (2)through others in many cases, based on (3) laughably unrelated degrees (if any at all) and (4)feeding client what client is feeding them.

Any given person with minimum knowledge of a foreign language can brand themselves as a 'translator' in the face of an easy or generic text, but only a 'professional' can stand out through successfully handling the incredibly-challenging texts.

The above 'wannabeing' coupled with uneducated client's 'all's grist that comes to our mill' are the reasons behind the wishful "agencies know they can easily bring the prices down while preserving a good level of delivery."

To that I say, "Nail (gullible client), meet Hammer (substandard dealer)" & "Hammer (exploitative client), meet Nail (jejune dealer)."

Let 'em hammer and nail each other for quite some time until they are both sick of it!

[Edited at 2021-03-25 16:47 GMT]
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William Bowley
Po7
bris97
 

Jocelin Meunier  Identity Verified
フランス
Local time: 13:43
英語 から フランス語
About ProZ Mar 25

Like you, I do not believe that ProZ is a platform for cut-price translation services. But it is a business, and if they were to establish, let's say, a rate that is a decent minimum, their traffic would plummet real quick. Their first loyalty is to themselves, not the translators.
As Christine says, the translators' directory is where good clients will look. Not always, of course; for example, today I received a proposition for 0.04$ per word. But that's how I got a few good clients.
... See more
Like you, I do not believe that ProZ is a platform for cut-price translation services. But it is a business, and if they were to establish, let's say, a rate that is a decent minimum, their traffic would plummet real quick. Their first loyalty is to themselves, not the translators.
As Christine says, the translators' directory is where good clients will look. Not always, of course; for example, today I received a proposition for 0.04$ per word. But that's how I got a few good clients.
There are no regulations against brutally underpaying translators, so even if ProZ is, I believe, one of the most serious website, it will still suffer from a global trend.
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CARLIER BRUNO
Jorge Payan
 

David GAY
英語 から フランス語
+ ...
bid/offer Mar 25

The official PROZ numbers are officially based on the prices asked by PROZ member. But I've noticed that is almost the same for every pair. So I doubt it's reliable.
The rates mentioned in job offers are the rates agencies offer.

[Modifié le 2021-03-25 18:01 GMT]

[Modifié le 2021-03-25 19:05 GMT]


 

CARLIER BRUNO
フランス
Local time: 13:43
Feb 2021に入会
英語 から フランス語
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Yes Christine, but hard to stand out from the crowd when you're starting, with no customer rating... Mar 25

Christine Andersen wrote:

I never go below the average rate for my language pair, and most of my clients find me through my profile.
This is true of many users of this site.

The best clients find translators through the directories, and then they negotiate directly about rates, deadlines and whatever else needs to be arranged. Repeat jobs, where the same client and translator work together again, will not involve Proz.com at all, but when both are happy with the arrangement, the rate will often be above the average.

The rates many translators state on their profiles are not visible, but they are used to filter offers that will not be accepted, and the rates are counted in the statistics to calculate the average. Mine are like that - above average but invisible.

In fact, my rates vary quite a lot, depending on the type of job and possibly the client as well which is why I do not show them.

This site is a market place where outsourcers and translators find each other, and then arrange terms between them.
It should really be the translator who sets the rate. There are not many professions where the customer comes in and dictates the price. Agencies have their standard budgets, nevertheless, so they often suggest a rate. The translator is still free to negotiate or turn it down!

The way to get well-paid jobs is to fill in your profile, make yourself visible, and let the good clients find you.


 

CARLIER BRUNO
フランス
Local time: 13:43
Feb 2021に入会
英語 から フランス語
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Yes, I guess I have to reverse my posit° (continuous applications on missions) & focus on my profil Mar 25

Jocelin Meunier wrote:

Like you, I do not believe that ProZ is a platform for cut-price translation services. But it is a business, and if they were to establish, let's say, a rate that is a decent minimum, their traffic would plummet real quick. Their first loyalty is to themselves, not the translators.
As Christine says, the translators' directory is where good clients will look. Not always, of course; for example, today I received a proposition for 0.04$ per word. But that's how I got a few good clients.
There are no regulations against brutally underpaying translators, so even if ProZ is, I believe, one of the most serious website, it will still suffer from a global trend.


 

Daniel Frisano  Identity Verified
イタリア
Local time: 13:43
2008に入会
英語 から イタリア語
+ ...
Because ... Mar 25

... the "Average rates reported by language pair" are totally unrealistic due to wishful thinking and/our outright lying.

Enrique Bjarne Strand Ferrer
Apolonia Dermit
Sanjin Grandić
Kristian Vike Pedersen
 

CARLIER BRUNO
フランス
Local time: 13:43
Feb 2021に入会
英語 から フランス語
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Yes, I guess I have to reverse my posit° (continuous applications on missions) & focus on my profil Mar 26

Jocelin Meunier wrote:

Like you, I do not believe that ProZ is a platform for cut-price translation services. But it is a business, and if they were to establish, let's say, a rate that is a decent minimum, their traffic would plummet real quick. Their first loyalty is to themselves, not the translators.
As Christine says, the translators' directory is where good clients will look. Not always, of course; for example, today I received a proposition for 0.04$ per word. But that's how I got a few good clients.
There are no regulations against brutally underpaying translators, so even if ProZ is, I believe, one of the most serious website, it will still suffer from a global trend.


 

Teresa Borges
ポルトガル
Local time: 12:43
2007に入会
英語 から ポルトガル語
+ ...
@Bruno Mar 26

If you search for a little bit on Proz, you’ll be able to find a lot of information on how to stand out. Over the years I’ve read some very good advice given by Sheila Wilson, Christine Andersen and Nikki Scott-Despaigne (to name just a few). There are also some webinars on the subject (https://www.proz.com/translator-training/format/webinar-presentations). You ... See more
If you search for a little bit on Proz, you’ll be able to find a lot of information on how to stand out. Over the years I’ve read some very good advice given by Sheila Wilson, Christine Andersen and Nikki Scott-Despaigne (to name just a few). There are also some webinars on the subject (https://www.proz.com/translator-training/format/webinar-presentations). You should also check the video library. Good luck!Collapse


P.L.F.Persio
CARLIER BRUNO
 

CARLIER BRUNO
フランス
Local time: 13:43
Feb 2021に入会
英語 から フランス語
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Interesting points... Grazie ("due") mille Teresa! Mar 30

I've just enrolled in two seminars that will certainly give me a better idea of how to promote myself through ProZ. Not that easy, at all, when you are starting out on a platform whose power and profit is based precisely on reputation, mostly. Reputation breeds reputation and "breaking" the zero point remains the most daunting challenge.



Teresa Borges wrote:

If you search for a little bit on Proz, you’ll be able to find a lot of information on how to stand out. Over the years I’ve read some very good advice given by Sheila Wilson, Christine Andersen and Nikki Scott-Despaigne (to name just a few). There are also some webinars on the subject (https://www.proz.com/translator-training/format/webinar-presentations). You should also check the video library. Good luck!


 

Eleftherios Kritikakis  Identity Verified
米国
Local time: 06:43
ギリシャ語 から 英語
+ ...
A ha ha ha... Mar 30

CARLIER BRUNO wrote:

Why are most of the rates proposed and/or expected by potential clients are below ProZ "Average rates reported by language pair"?


Early this morning there was a project in one of those platforms of a large agency. 6,000 words (not MT), $200. The deadline was so tight I couldn't do it, so I didn't bother. But it was hanging there for a while, so I assumed that people were submitting offers. I re-checked it out of curiosity before going to bed for a nap. It was now at $180, same deadline.

It's the new plan of Greeks to make their country and themselves wealthier: "let's charge even less than what they're willing to pay".

Now if you ask them what they get paid, they'll all give you a much higher price. We're all lying in here.


 

Adieu  Identity Verified
ロシア語 から 英語
Well sheet Mar 30

I thought I was a bottom-feeder.

I just proofread 180 words (which on closer examination turned out to be two copies of the same identical 90-word page....why? because incompetence) for $50.

6k words for $200? Stuff that.

[Edited at 2021-03-30 18:18 GMT]


Chris S
 

Eleftherios Kritikakis  Identity Verified
米国
Local time: 06:43
ギリシャ語 から 英語
+ ...
How it works. Mar 30

Adieu wrote:
6k words for $200? Stuff that.


I just checked again, and that project was finally given at $120. Straight translation, no MT, a little over 6,000 words, lots of software-related complex content. So basically you had translators outbidding each other downwards to less than 2 cents per word. I kept a screenshot.

On the MT side it works as follows: the agency has the beginning and the end time of work on files in their system. This also applies if you work on their desktop applications, the application keeps the open time and last save time. It's used to calculate the average time translators worked on them. So when a translator is proud of himself for finishing MT-editing 3000 words in 1.5 hours or less, in reality he has just fed this number to the agency. The most experienced and most concentrated translators are shooting themselves in the foot this way.
As a result, it's an automatic system that punishes dedication and experience. The more you produce, the less you get paid in the next project.

The same started happening in the non-MT jobs too. Since translators are using the Google-API as an assisting device, their output increased dramatically in projects where they have experience. Hence a very sharp decline in rates in the last 2-3 years, because of the way they manage the actual files on their computer (begin and end time) and their rush to send the files as quickly as possible to impress the PMs. Just like good little workers that they are.

If you add to that certain distortion factors (non-business-related personal preferences of key PMs, misleading word counts, kickbacks from certain networked translators, oligopoly status of 2-3 agencies controlling all end-clients with recurring work, lockdowns that have flooded the industry with people happy to practice at the expense of the product, etc etc), and the industry for most of those who depend on a sufficient income to pay their bills has become a Class A Titanic.

There are also small old-style agencies that will pay the old-style rate of 0.12-0.10, but these are very few and their available work is also sporadic and limited. That is why proz rates are misleading, because they're not based on the bulk of work done everyday by the large agencies, they are based only on a limited sample that represent 1% of work or less. The bulk or work is assigned outside proz.

Now, a lot of people in these forums will tell you that they are making a living. They mean that they make 10-25K per year, and in their area and life circumstances that's sufficient. In Greece for example if one earns 1,000 per month from this job he'll be happy, especially if he craftily avoids taxes by working only for US-based companies (no 1099 reporting requirement leads to undeclared income). In the US though, regardless of area, I'd say 40-50K per year would be the lowest in gross income in a cheap area to justify freelance effort, if you pay your own rent and support yourself.

One would say "determine whether the income from this job is sufficient for you", but I say that this income will sink even further next year, with a cost of health and opportunity cost alone not worth the effort.
Unless you're desperate.


Robert Forstag
Fabrice Ndie
 
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