占有改定

English translation: constructive transfer

04:20 Nov 29, 2011
Japanese to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law: Contract(s)
Japanese term or phrase: 占有改定
This concerns 譲渡担保 (sales& purchase agreement) and more of the sentence is:
...乙の甲にたいする代金支払済みの商品について、甲に対する譲渡担保権を設定し、甲に対する占有改定の方法により引渡をなすものとする。

For 占有改定 I have found the translation "constructive transfer with retention of possession" but I'm not comfortable using this phrase (since I've never used it before) and because another website says it is "A legal fiction which permits accepts of goods in a zone before it is physically transferred into customs territory."
Can you please let me know a better way to express this term or this sentence clearly?
Thank you.
Joyce A
Thailand
Local time: 06:24
English translation:constructive transfer
Explanation:
"Constructive transfer" means that the transfer is legally recognized, despite being otherwise observationally incomplete.

To give you an easier example, "constructive notice" is when a party is deemed to have received notice, regardless of whether or not that party is subjectively aware of having received that notice. Internet postings are often given the legal status of "constructive notice" in certain contexts, given that it's impractical to guarantee delivery of a legally required notice directly to a large number of people.

The fact that this term is called a "legal fiction" doesn't mean that it's a bogus concept. Rather, the "fiction" lies in the fact that the physical transfer hasn't taken place, and yet the transfer is still legally deemed to have taken place. Parties may desire such an effect for any number of reasons, some of which may relate to their ability to exercise control over the property in question or to take certain accounting actions.

From the Japanese Civil Code:

http://www.japaneselawtranslation.go.jp/law/detail/?ky=nomin...
(占有改定)
(Constructive Transfers)
第百八十三条 代理人が自己の占有物を以後本人のために占有する意思を表示したときは、本人は、これによって占有権を取得する。
Article 183 If an agent manifests an intention that The thing possessed by it shall thenceforward be possessed on behalf of its principal, the principal shall thereby acquire possessory rights.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/占有改定
占有改定(せんゆうかいてい)は、民法183条に規定される占有の移転方式。ある目的物の占有者が、それを手元に置いたまま占有を他者に移す場合をいう。自己占有(直接占有)はそのままに、代理占有(間接占有)が意思表示のみによって移転する。それまで目的物の占有者であった者は、占有代理人となる。
民法183条(占有改定)
代理人が自己の占有物を以後本人のために占有する意思を表示したときは、本人は、これによって占有権を取得する。

http://ir.library.osaka-u.ac.jp/metadb/up/LIBOULRK01/oulr057...
See the discussion starting at the end of page two.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 24 mins (2011-11-29 04:44:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Also, the "with retention of possession part" seems redundant to me, as the word "constructive" implies that possession has been retained.

It's also not included in the Civil Code translation. Japanese law translations, even official ones, are not always to be trusted (they are notorious for inconsistent treatment of fixed legal terms/phrases). In this case, however, I think the safest bet would be to use the official translation, since the Civil Code seems to be the source of this concept in Japanese law.
Selected response from:

JapanLegal
Japan
Local time: 08:24
Grading comment
So I just had to take out "with retention of possession?" :-) Thank you for that.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5constructive transfer
JapanLegal


  

Answers


18 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
constructive transfer


Explanation:
"Constructive transfer" means that the transfer is legally recognized, despite being otherwise observationally incomplete.

To give you an easier example, "constructive notice" is when a party is deemed to have received notice, regardless of whether or not that party is subjectively aware of having received that notice. Internet postings are often given the legal status of "constructive notice" in certain contexts, given that it's impractical to guarantee delivery of a legally required notice directly to a large number of people.

The fact that this term is called a "legal fiction" doesn't mean that it's a bogus concept. Rather, the "fiction" lies in the fact that the physical transfer hasn't taken place, and yet the transfer is still legally deemed to have taken place. Parties may desire such an effect for any number of reasons, some of which may relate to their ability to exercise control over the property in question or to take certain accounting actions.

From the Japanese Civil Code:

http://www.japaneselawtranslation.go.jp/law/detail/?ky=nomin...
(占有改定)
(Constructive Transfers)
第百八十三条 代理人が自己の占有物を以後本人のために占有する意思を表示したときは、本人は、これによって占有権を取得する。
Article 183 If an agent manifests an intention that The thing possessed by it shall thenceforward be possessed on behalf of its principal, the principal shall thereby acquire possessory rights.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/占有改定
占有改定(せんゆうかいてい)は、民法183条に規定される占有の移転方式。ある目的物の占有者が、それを手元に置いたまま占有を他者に移す場合をいう。自己占有(直接占有)はそのままに、代理占有(間接占有)が意思表示のみによって移転する。それまで目的物の占有者であった者は、占有代理人となる。
民法183条(占有改定)
代理人が自己の占有物を以後本人のために占有する意思を表示したときは、本人は、これによって占有権を取得する。

http://ir.library.osaka-u.ac.jp/metadb/up/LIBOULRK01/oulr057...
See the discussion starting at the end of page two.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 24 mins (2011-11-29 04:44:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Also, the "with retention of possession part" seems redundant to me, as the word "constructive" implies that possession has been retained.

It's also not included in the Civil Code translation. Japanese law translations, even official ones, are not always to be trusted (they are notorious for inconsistent treatment of fixed legal terms/phrases). In this case, however, I think the safest bet would be to use the official translation, since the Civil Code seems to be the source of this concept in Japanese law.

JapanLegal
Japan
Local time: 08:24
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in JapaneseJapanese
PRO pts in category: 16
Grading comment
So I just had to take out "with retention of possession?" :-) Thank you for that.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.


See also:
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search