| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Poll: Do you consider your CAT tool(s) more of an investment, or more of an expense? 投稿者: ProZ.com Staff
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Dan Lucas 
英国
Local time: 11:35
2014に入会
日本語 から 英語
Eliza Hall wrote:
Do you know how Trados counts repetitions? I've googled but had no luck.
Even if the client is offering you this in good faith - not guaranteed - surely it makes no sense to take this on if you don't already own Trados. Wouldn't that leave you in the worst of both worlds, enjoying none of the advantages of the CAT tool but accepting a discount on repetitions?
If it's a decent chunk of money this one project could of course pay for a license, but I wouldn't advise you to take on this project, purchase a Studio 2019 license, and learn how to use the software on the job unless it's a relaxed deadline. You'd be putting yourself under a lot of pressure.
Regards,
Dan
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Dan Lucas wrote: Eliza Hall wrote:
... learn how to use the software...
Do you consider your H2O to be ice, water or steam?
In the human body it is water.
Do you consider expenses as costs or investments?
Costs, capital expenditures and non-tax deductible expenditures are defined in national regulations and accounting standards.
The tax authorities are not interested in my opinion.
The tax authorities approve that I use open-source software and I have no expenses.
I use commercial MS Windows supplied with my HW. My main desktop CAT is OmegaT and I am waiting for Neural MT for desktop Windows, see marian-nmt.github.io/faq
Milan
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DZiW wrote:
Loads
Did you pluck your numbers out of thin air?
I occasionally work for one of the big global agencies, who require me to use their CAT tool. They pay me 25% of my standard (high) rate for 100% matches with their TM, which rarely need much work. I even get 10% for repetitions in my own translation. Yeah, in this case I’m only getting 2 cents a word, but it’s for doing nothing!
I think the usual grids allow both parties to benefit from the use of the CAT tool.
It’s too easy to draw conclusions based on the occasional horror story on here, but the reality is very different.
I probably make $150 an hour off that agency on average. Not $7.50.
| | | | | Matches are measured by segment, not by word | Jun 21, 2020 |
Eliza Hall wrote:
I just had a client send me an almost 9500-word document (in MS Word), but then offer my per-word price x 6500 words as payment, because they have Trados on their end and apparently it said there were 3000 repetitions.
Looking at the doc itself, I don't see blocks of identical text anywhere. Which makes me wonder, what does Trados count as a repetition? This is French; is every instance of the word "le" counted as a repetition?! (I mean every instance after the first, obviously).
Do you know how Trados counts repetitions? I've googled but had no luck.
Repetitions/matches are not counted by word but by segment = sentence.
Trados (and other CAT tools) look at a sentence and depending on how many identical words are in a sentence the match percentage is calculated.
Example:
segment 1: Anna sees a small green car driving by.
segment 2: Anna sees a small red car driving by.
These segments are more or less identical, except for the color of the car. The translated segment will be auto-filled into your target segment and you will only have to exchange the adjective. This would be a 90% match or something in this range. It is very little work for the translator and the payment is reduced to 10% (or whatever your agreement is).
segment 1: Anna sees a small green car driving by.
segment 2: Anna sees a blue bus crossing the intersection.
Here most of the words in segment 2 are new words as compared to segment 1 and thus the match rate is below 75% (actually it is even below 50%), and the translator will get the full word rate, i.e. get paid for every single word in the sentence. Matches below 75% should always be paid in full. Since a 75% match or below in my target language German is pretty useless most of the time, I try to negotiate grids where all matches up to 84% are fully paid.
If the client offers to pay for only 6000 words it is possible that they will deliver a Trados package which includes a TM and this TM contains matches. This means that some part of the source text has been translated before (by a different translator). Such segments, with a varying match rate (75% to CM = context matches) will be auto-filled into your translation and save you time while doing the translation. But beware: If the quality of these matches is bad (because the other translator did a bad job) you will not want to use them. Then you need to re-negotiate the rate. Usually agencies either deliver alwalys good matches or always bad matches. My experience is the lower the word rate the lower the fuzzy quality.
As someone mentioned above, better don't try to do a 10k project as first project in a CAT. They are not intuitive at all, you really need to practice. As for Trados, SDL offer a 1 month free trial and there are good beginner videos on YouTube. I would recommend practicing with this free trial version before accepting the first real assignment.
[Edited at 2020-06-21 17:55 GMT]
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DZiW (X)
ウクライナ
英語 から ロシア語
+ ...
| Chizzio theoretically wrote: O0dles | Jun 21, 2020 |
Chises, you’ve got a funny shredded cat Schrödinger financial-like writing, but how about specifics:
0) Just to make sure: Are you writing it as a sole entrepreneur or a company/outsourcer?
1) If I got your ‘standard (high)’ [or agreed?] rate right, let’s assume the stated $0.02/word is really 10%, implying your 100% rate makes $0.20/word--which is unheard of in the (mi... See more Chises, you’ve got a funny shredded cat Schrödinger financial-like writing, but how about specifics:
0) Just to make sure: Are you writing it as a sole entrepreneur or a company/outsourcer?
1) If I got your ‘standard (high)’ [or agreed?] rate right, let’s assume the stated $0.02/word is really 10%, implying your 100% rate makes $0.20/word--which is unheard of in the (middlemen) field of transition, I’m afraid. Considering what can ProZ/intermediaries offer and what colleagues say, it’s just incredible--my congratulations!
2) Such an occasionally averaged “$150 an hour” looks pretty nice, but what is the mean, I do wonder? Does it make from $100 to $200 per hour or from $0 to $300? Absolutely wonderful!
3) Thus, you are telling us about some 750 ‘unique’ words/hour, 3000 of TM segments repetitions/hour, and about 7500 of ‘own’ repetitions/hour… Either you are a good negotiator or at least a dedicated fanciful writer)
4) Meanwhile, if they provide TMs, then it might be about PEMTing, which is even lower for you.
And so on…
Could you please share the statistics when you get $150 an hour, so I would also happily eat the dust?
TY
P.S. Even if one doesn’t pay regularly $500+ for a CAT but agrees to lower rates, “discounts”, and other negative stuff, it is still the payment: Mind the cashflow! ▲ Collapse
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DZiW wrote:
0) Just to make sure: Are you writing it as a sole entrepreneur or a company/outsourcer?
Pure translator
1) If I got your ‘standard (high)’ [or agreed?] rate right, let’s assume the stated $0.02/word is really 10%, implying your 100% rate makes $0.20/word--which is unheard of in the (middlemen) field of transition, I’m afraid. Considering what can ProZ/intermediaries offer and what colleagues say, it’s just incredible
Maybe it’s because I’m
a pure translator who is good at what he does, and doesn’t waste time on diversifying?
2) Such an occasionally averaged “$150 an hour” looks pretty nice, but what is the mean, I do wonder? Does it make from $100 to $200 per hour or from $0 to $300? Absolutely wonderful!
An average is an average. What difference does it make?
3) Thus, you are telling us about some 750 ‘unique’ words/hour, 3000 of TM segments repetitions/hour, and about 7500 of ‘own’ repetitions/hour… Either you are a good negotiator or at least a dedicated fanciful writer)
I don’t negotiate. And I’m not a particularly fast translator. It’s just a matter of supply and demand. I have something they need. Mostly it’s small jobs that trigger a minimum charge. If agencies were as you describe, they wouldn’t use me.
4) Meanwhile, if they provide TMs, then it might be about PEMTing, which is even lower for you.
And so on…
I’m not sure you understand how it works. It doesn’t matter what the price per word is. It’s only what you make per hour that matters.
Could you please share the statistics when you get $150 an hour, so I would also happily eat the dust?
TY
Well, yesterday I was paid a minimum charge of one hour for translating 30 words that were all in the memory already. So effectively I was paid at $300 per hour. It’s not usual but it happens. Why is this so surprising to someone who says he interprets at $500 an hour?
P.S. Even if one doesn’t pay regularly $500+ for a CAT but agrees to lower rates, “discounts”, and other negative stuff, it is still the payment: Mind the cashflow!
But $500 over, say, three years is not a major outlay for a full-time translator (only an hour’s work in your case) and generates a return that stock market investors can only dream of.
My point is not to show off but to show with an extreme case that CAT tools can pay, whatever your claim, and can be mutually beneficial financially. This agency wouldn’t use me otherwise. And, by the way, they provide their CAT tool for free!
| | | | DZiW (X)
ウクライナ
英語 から ロシア語
+ ...
| Reversal markup | Jun 22, 2020 |
Chissy, little wonder you could not provide the stats/grid for even the $0.20/word cannot average $150 an hour, nor I could understand your muddled example. Nevermind. On the other hand, if they really pay you $300 for some 30 words, then you are no ‘pure’ translator--it’s either a buddy-buddy/escort or copywriting/rewriting, perhaps. Winning favorable terms is also a skill, yet it has little to do with CATs and hourly words [reproducing], only ideas and emotions [creating/imagination].... See more Chissy, little wonder you could not provide the stats/grid for even the $0.20/word cannot average $150 an hour, nor I could understand your muddled example. Nevermind. On the other hand, if they really pay you $300 for some 30 words, then you are no ‘pure’ translator--it’s either a buddy-buddy/escort or copywriting/rewriting, perhaps. Winning favorable terms is also a skill, yet it has little to do with CATs and hourly words [reproducing], only ideas and emotions [creating/imagination].
Meanwhile, an oversimplified situation:
Once or twice a week Chuzz comes to the nearby bakery to buy $5 buns.
The seller offers him (#1) to buy a $50+ membership, providing Chuzz will buy the same buns for $7.55 once a day.
Otherwise, (#2) Chuzz can get a badge with a nice ”DUPEGALL” “SODRAT” logo for free*—with the same obligations though.
Is Proposal #2 any better [plus] than Proposal #1 or they both are but a buffoon membership [minus]? (Will the expenses increase without a good reason?)
Let’s see, now people are isolated and stressed out, they don’t understand pigeon NewSpeak and euphemisms, all critical thinking and important questions is a taboo, the government self-isolated from its people and keeps playing weirdo games abusing the rights, laws, and common sense, whereas even one from a developed country has to pay $4000+ for monthly bills…
So why giving “discounts”, undermining the biz and lifestyle?
I know many those who do use CATs but remember “Working more neither assumes nor implies earning more” either give no unreasonable “discounts” or own a company.
At least I’m glad some “pure” translators willy-nilly will have to reconsider their business education, approaches, priorities, and careers.
Do take care—especially riding a bike) ▲ Collapse
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Investments are expenses when they're made. It's a question of cost/benefit.
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Eliza Hall wrote:
I just had a client send me an almost 9500-word document (in MS Word), but then offer my per-word price x 6500 words as payment, because they have Trados on their end and apparently it said there were 3000 repetitions.
Looking at the doc itself, I don't see blocks of identical text anywhere. Which makes me wonder, what does Trados count as a repetition? This is French; is every instance of the word "le" counted as a repetition?! (I mean every instance after the first, obviously).
Do you know how Trados counts repetitions? I've googled but had no luck.
Repetition is identical segment. That means, after you translate it once, it has been translated throughout the document. If you have auto-propagation on then CAT fills all the corresponding segments with your translation, if it is not on then it comes from your TM as 100% match once you reach them.
Segment can be as short as just one stand-alone letter or number, or can be full sentence. Number inside sentence is not repetition, it needs to be separate translation unit. If your document contains for example lots of lists that are numbered 1., 2. etc then these numbers may be repetitions. Content that Trados considers non-translatable (like plain numbers in tables) are repetitions, even if the numbers themselves are different.
Repetitions do not necessarily come as whole blocks of text. They may be very well be just single sentences among others.
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As I haven't used this CAT tool(s) before, i would say it depends on the outcome. If it was efficient and user-friendly, and it could bring me regular clients, then i would treat it as an investment.
| | | | DZiW (X)
ウクライナ
英語 から ロシア語
+ ...
| Receiving less profits | Jul 7, 2020 |
Well, let’s have a loot at it: If it is efficient By what criteria? While a CAT tool may (A) find some fizzy fuzzy matches and (B) provide online neuro/MT, in many language pairs even similar or misplaces morphemes and words are too different to consider. Why, occasionally concordance may help and it could work for techy and routine papers, but still it is very the translator wh... See more Well, let’s have a loot at it: If it is efficient By what criteria? While a CAT tool may (A) find some fizzy fuzzy matches and (B) provide online neuro/MT, in many language pairs even similar or misplaces morphemes and words are too different to consider. Why, occasionally concordance may help and it could work for techy and routine papers, but still it is very the translator who does the job. Also mind you that most middlemen prefer certain CATs and versions.
and user-friendly It also depends, yet with some reservations and exceptions, all the bulky whistle-and-blow CATs require steep learning curve adding to the issues, let alone such suits are initially overbloated and complicated to partly substantiate the overpriced tags.
and it could bring me regular clients If you know your absolute minimum and still go above the red line, applying the decent rate, then it’s ok. However, if such an ‘investment’ is an excuse for prospects and clients to demand freebies, low rates, ‘discount’ tricks (often resulting in under $0.001/w flat), and serve as a proof you are but a needy and trendy bottom-feeder, then only in a dream one would treat it as an investment. It's just a useful tool, when used appropriately and wisely. Now try asking a hairdresser with an extra pair of scissors--or a baker with a new oven--to provide you 'discounts', considering it an investment ▲ Collapse
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