Aug 4, 2003 09:46
20 yrs ago
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Arabic term
Arabic grammar
Arabic
Art/Literary
Grammar question
I am looking for a final and comprehensive opinion about the situation of final (yaa) in Arabic.
Does the Modern Standard Arabic (MSA) require two dots under the final “yaa” in the proper name “Aly” to distinguish it from the preposition “in”?
I understand that these two dots are used in some Arab countries.
Please note that I checked all my copies of the holy Koran and I did not find those two dots.
Thank you.
Does the Modern Standard Arabic (MSA) require two dots under the final “yaa” in the proper name “Aly” to distinguish it from the preposition “in”?
I understand that these two dots are used in some Arab countries.
Please note that I checked all my copies of the holy Koran and I did not find those two dots.
Thank you.
Responses
| 5 | Nothing to do with Grammar. |
Fuad Yahya
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Change log
Dec 11, 2005 05:24: Fuad Yahya changed "Field" from "Other" to "Art/Literary"
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Nothing to do with Grammar.
When I worked in Jubail, Saudi Arabia, I noticed that my Sudanese colleagues in the Translation Department never bothered about the two dots. I thought it was sloppy of them, especially considering that they were, or at least were trying to be, professional liguists. Then I found out that it was just the convention in the Sudan. It appears that it is likewise in Egypt.
Remember that writing is merely an artificial convention -- a very useful one, but still quite artificial. Arabic writing started out with no dots whatsoever. Then dots were used as vowels to help non-Arab converts to Islam read Arabic. Then more dots (red) were used to distinguish B form T, etc. Today, when we write, we take these things for granted, but they were not always there, and it is a shame that we think of them statically. They are ingenius contrivances for purely practical reasons. Anything that helps standardize, streamline, and faciliate reading, writing, and ther learning thereof, should be tried.
Today, the matter of the ya' and final short alif have largely been settled by the invention of Arabic word-processing. The ya corresponds to the letter D in the English keyboard (MS Windows), and the alif corresponds to the letter N. That basically settles it. If you consistently type a ya wherever it may occur in the word, whether initial, medial, or final, always using the same key, then you will never be in doubt.
The same priniciple applies to the letter ha and the ta marboota.
Notice that in MS Word, you can set it to tolerate looseness or to require strict distinction (Tools, Options, Right-to-Left).
When I edit other people's translations, I always make sure that the ya and alif are not confuse, that the ha and ta marboota are not confused, and that initial alif and initial hamza are not confused.
The Qur'ans you have looked at use the time-honored Uthmani tradition of writing. It is not normative for our everyday writing.
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Note added at 1 day 5 hrs 20 mins (2003-08-05 15:06:40 GMT)
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Neglecting to insert the two dots underneath a final ي does not make a translation \"invalid,\" but it renders the writing orthographically sub-standard. Again, I emphasize, we are talking about a convention that has been stealthily gaining ground and has caught some people by surprise. I believe word processing and electronic spell-checking is one of the factors that have favored the two dots as a universal standard. Wherever the two dots had been neglected before, people are now likely to find the new standard somewhat irksome.
I apologize for all the typos above.
Remember that writing is merely an artificial convention -- a very useful one, but still quite artificial. Arabic writing started out with no dots whatsoever. Then dots were used as vowels to help non-Arab converts to Islam read Arabic. Then more dots (red) were used to distinguish B form T, etc. Today, when we write, we take these things for granted, but they were not always there, and it is a shame that we think of them statically. They are ingenius contrivances for purely practical reasons. Anything that helps standardize, streamline, and faciliate reading, writing, and ther learning thereof, should be tried.
Today, the matter of the ya' and final short alif have largely been settled by the invention of Arabic word-processing. The ya corresponds to the letter D in the English keyboard (MS Windows), and the alif corresponds to the letter N. That basically settles it. If you consistently type a ya wherever it may occur in the word, whether initial, medial, or final, always using the same key, then you will never be in doubt.
The same priniciple applies to the letter ha and the ta marboota.
Notice that in MS Word, you can set it to tolerate looseness or to require strict distinction (Tools, Options, Right-to-Left).
When I edit other people's translations, I always make sure that the ya and alif are not confuse, that the ha and ta marboota are not confused, and that initial alif and initial hamza are not confused.
The Qur'ans you have looked at use the time-honored Uthmani tradition of writing. It is not normative for our everyday writing.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 5 hrs 20 mins (2003-08-05 15:06:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Neglecting to insert the two dots underneath a final ي does not make a translation \"invalid,\" but it renders the writing orthographically sub-standard. Again, I emphasize, we are talking about a convention that has been stealthily gaining ground and has caught some people by surprise. I believe word processing and electronic spell-checking is one of the factors that have favored the two dots as a universal standard. Wherever the two dots had been neglected before, people are now likely to find the new standard somewhat irksome.
I apologize for all the typos above.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you Fuad for your excellent knowledge and your kindnes."
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