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我が身（が）可愛い（さ・だ・に）
Aug 13, 2009 20:08
14 yrs ago
日本語 term

集住地区

日本語 から 英語 社会科学 社会科学、社会学、倫理など
国内移民の話で、ある地方出身の移民が本土において集まって居住している地区のことです。候補としてdensely settled area があるのですが、denselyを使うと「密集」「過密」という感じに聞こえるため、より良い訳がないか探しています。
Proposed translations (英語)
2 migrant residential district, migrant community
3 +1 Immigrant Community
3 +1 enclave community
4 district(area) inhabited by.... or ..... inhabited area(district)
3 +1 concentrated area
3 migration community
3 residential concentration (area)
3 ghetto
4 -1 ghetto, slum, quarter
1 +1 settlement area of migrants

Discussion

Deborah Edwards Aug 14, 2009:
I think if we are talking about an enclave, then the fact that it is a "cultural" enclave is implied. If there is no difference in a cultural sense between the new arrivals and those living in the surrounding territories, I don't believe that it would be a valid use of the term.

Gran Torino is the best movie I've seen in the last couple of years. A great example of ethnic enclaves. I've really enjoyed this discussion - thanks for your input, Yoneda-san!:-)
yonedatransterp Aug 14, 2009:
Then how about... Cultural enclave? or Osaka immigrant enclave. Enclave, besides being a rather terrible name for a car, seems too.. restrictive for me. A sort of insular area, xenophobic and antagonistic to outsiders. The sort of place that has an invisible wall around it to keep foreign elements to the community out. But thats my impression from the word - and I can't say its a good reason not to use it.

Speaking of enclaves. Have you seen the film directed by Clint Eastwood - "Gran Torino"? That, is a great film about ethnic enclaves, immigrants, and what we're sort of talking about here. I just watched it and thought it was a great film no real bearing on the discussion at hand :)
Deborah Edwards Aug 14, 2009:
I agree with Yoneda-san. There is no problem with using the term "immigration" for people who are merely crossing a geographical boundary within the same country.
Deborah Edwards Aug 13, 2009:
Enclave enclave definition

en·clave (en′klāv′, än′-)

noun

1. a territory surrounded or nearly surrounded by the territory of another country San Marino is an enclave within Italy
2. a minority culture group living as an entity within a larger group

Etymology: Fr < OFr < enclaver, to enclose, lock in < VL *inclavare < L in, in + clavis, a key: see lot

Webster's New World College Dictionary Copyright © 2005 by Wiley Publishing,

I do not think that it would be wise to use the expression "ethnic enclave," as Yoneda-san suggested, as it is probably going too far to say that people from Osaka are ethnically distinct from other mainland Japanese as I believe that they basically share a very similar gene pool (although they may exhibit some distinct cultural/linguistic features compared to other mainland Japanese). I do not think that "enclave community" is superfluous, as evidenced by the use of this particular expression in several academic papers (try performing a Google search on the expression "enclave communities.")
yonedatransterp Aug 13, 2009:
Immigrant This one, is also a loaded term. <br><br>Immigration - Arrival of new individuals into a habitat or population. It is a biological concept and is important in population ecology, differentiated from emigration and migration.<br><br>It doesn't have to be from one country to another. While for most usage, it does mean across national boundaries. In specifics though, it is a movement of a person across a geographical boundary to another location. This can be domestically, out of any area. Meaning Osaka to Tokyo is immigration from Osaka to Tokyo. We simply do not make common usage of the term of this way. But with a little rewriting of the original sentence, I believe it is quite apt for the usage. The outermost boundaries of the migration is defined as the domestic borders. Once the boundaries are established as domestic movements, the misunderstanding of "immigrants" being an international move is removed. I think that is a valid method of writing.
yonedatransterp Aug 13, 2009:
Hey! Lets all use the discussion thing! You can just call me yoneda-san :)
Here are my reasons for disagreeing with other terms.

Enclave Community. -> Ethnic Enclave (?)

Seems redundant, and I think it would work better as simply "An enclave of Foo". A sociology term would be Ethnic Enclave, if you can say being from Osaka is an ethnic distinction. Certainly works in foreign examples where the distinction is clearer. I think we're all caught up on the more vague nature. 国内移民, or domestic movement makes immigrant sound too much (in my opinion, it isn't) - and enclave for me sounds too distinctly defined. This is a matter of choice left to the translator though. But I liked "enclave".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_enclave

The wikipedia entry (and the glossary from my sociology text) really seem to nail this one. Its really a question of if being an Osaka Native can be as distinct as an ethinicity. Some of my osakan friends would reply with an emphatic yes :)
Miho Ohashi (asker) Aug 13, 2009:
Thank you yonedatransterp-san for your insights. Yes, the "segregation" does not seem to apply in this context since they were not forced to live in this area by the authority, etc. As you correctly pointed out, the term is used in a context in which one comes to a new place within in the same country and chooses to live in that specific area based on personal connections (families, friend, etc.).
yonedatransterp Aug 13, 2009:
Residential Segregation / Migrant Community In proper terms, I've seen residential segregation used in politics, as a method of institutionalized racism. This is found in the United States and Europe. But.. doesn't fit this context. I think it would have been useful for other uses, such as 『チェコ国内のスロバキア人の集住地区』or the sort, where it is half enforced by external pressures. In this particular reference, I assume its partially by choice - to find some kinship and built in community in the locality. <br><br>I'd rather go with Immigrant Community. Close to Seika's thought, but I don't think a migration community fits. It makes it seem as if the community is still, at present, in migration.

Proposed translations

1時間
Selected

migrant residential district, migrant community

Based on Ms. Regan and seika's responses and explanations, I think you can eliminate the idea of "concentration" all together, and maybe go with one of these. The latter is found in academic article titles.
Peer comment(s):
agree seika : Yes, I agree. >> yonedatransterp-san, I thought of 'immigrant', too. But it sounds more like moving to another country. Miho san says "国内移民". (Or does 'immigrant' apply to domestic moves...?)
18分
disagree yonedatransterp : This is not a commuity on the move. due to migrants being people whose position is in flux, (webster dictionary) a : a person who moves regularly in order to find work especially in harvesting crops b : an animal that shifts from one habitat to another.
26分
I stand corrected. In this case, Ms. Ohashi needs to choose among "emigrant," "immigrant," and "migrant” based on the context of her sentence. From this sentence alone, we don't know which best describes the people in question.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks everyone for your suggestions and interesting discussion. I think I got the record number of answers? Each answer and explanation has its point, so honestly I would have divided points among all answerers if I could… I think a combination of migrant, community/area/district, and residential would work best in this context. I had a hard time deciding between “enclave community”, “immigrant community”, “settlement area of migrants”,　and “migrant community/migrant residential district”. Enclave community… although I like this a lot, not chosen because it entails a notion of cultural distinction as explained, and my text did not provide that context. I think it is more suitable to refer to communities like Chinatown or Little India. immigrant vs migrant: Although I understand that immigration can be used in this case, I opted for “migrant” because I thought about the term “internal migrant” (or “domestic migrant” in some cases) is often used in the field for “国内移民”, not “internal/domestic immigrants”. Besides, the author already uses “migrant” to refer to his target minority group. I thought “settlement” was also a good choice of word, but maybe it sounds more like “a small village”, rather than a mere “area” or “district”, as my Merriam-Webster Dictionary suggests. Ghetto… although I understand that this term could be neutral, I would not use this just to avoid any misunderstanding. Thank you all very much and I really really appreciate your help! "
15分

migration community

Just an idea...
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+1
2時間

Immigrant Community

Migrant community sounds too much like a community that is on the move, or will be moving. The definition of migrant is of a person that moves from area to area. The idea is the community is formed by people who are not from the locality - so I would use "Immigrant Community", to show that the community is formed by those who have migrated, and have situated themselves in the new location. I believe this distinction is small, but important.

Oh, and while immigrant does imply it is from a different country, the term itself is only defined as such by usage. It can be used to mean a person who has moved within the country. Just add a line to this effect. "An immigrant from the city of Chicago to the suburbs of California" is pretty clear, I think.
Note from asker:
My understanding of immigrants is that they are those who come to a foreign country for whatever reasons, and do not include those who move within a country, like in this case.
Peer comment(s):
agree Yumico Tanaka (X) : Immigrant does not necessary mean from overseas or another country. I think you could use this term with possibly "cultural"
9時間
neutral humbird : I agree with your definition on "migrant". But in this case I believe there is better term than "immigrant" as it has broader sense and scientifically less precise and ambiguous.
18時間
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+1
2時間

enclave community

If the people who immigrate from outside regions are culturally distinct from those living in the surrounding territory, I believe you could call the region an enclave and those domestic immigrants living within its limits an enclave community.


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Note added at 2 hrs (2009-08-13 22:34:52 GMT)
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Apologies, the above link isn't functioning properly. Please cut and paste the link below into your browser:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V...
Reference:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V91-3SWR71T-R&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_sea

Peer comment(s):
agree humbird : Yes, well defined, yet academically sound terminology.
4時間
Thank you, Humbird!
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1時間

district(area) inhabited by.... or ..... inhabited area(district)

Please see links:

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Note added at 2 hrs (2009-08-13 22:47:11 GMT)
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also an "area with a concentration of..." be of some use.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2009-08-13 23:00:48 GMT)
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* Correction to note: Also an "area with a concentration of..." may be of some use.

Also this passage seems to illustrate an area like "Chinatown" where it is just part of an urban area with a large number of Chinese residents.
Reference:

http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:qM1j0qOFVJoJ:opac.ndl.go.jp/articleid/10258375/jpn+%E9%9B%86%E4%BD%8F%E5%9C%B0%E5%8C%BA+area&cd=10&hl=e

http://univinfo.u-gakugei.ac.jp/u-gakugei/hp/kagami1.html

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2時間

residential concentration (area)

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6時間

ghetto

What about "ghetto"?
The use of this word is widespread in the social sciences (I am an anthropologist as well) and not only to describe extreme forms like the Jewish ghetto.
In a more figurative way, we talk about the black ghetto, for example. My Japanese dictionary gives the following definition: Ghetto : 少数民族の居住地区。
The term ghetto is used among social scientists of Japan when talking about the "yoseba", for example (the area where the daily labourers gather). I am pretty sure it is used as well for the areas of Osaka where descendants of "hinin" still live. In a more figurative way, I think it could work as well for the Korean areas of town, especially the North Korean ones.

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Note added at 6 heures (2009-08-14 02:35:32 GMT)
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http://koreanghetto.blogspot.com/2009/05/japan-come-for-cult...
This is not a Korean hate blog, so please don't misunderstand my use of the word "ghetto" in its title. According to Merriam-Webster online, its definition is as follows: GHETTO: a quarter of a city in which members of a minority group live especially because of social, legal, or economic pressure. a: an isolated group b: a situation that resembles a ghetto especially in conferring inferior status or limiting opportunity.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Pjpb7UgTheoC&pg=PA5&lpg=PA5...





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Note added at 6 heures (2009-08-14 02:37:01 GMT)
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(the last link is an extract of) Zainichi (Koreans in Japan): diasporic nationalism and postcolonial identity Par John Lie
Peer comment(s):
disagree Y. K. : The word "ghetto" has a negative connotation and we don't know whether the word in question is described in a negative way.
2時間
of course. only the person who has the whole text can tell. but I think it is an option
agree humbird : In Social Science "ghetto" is a neutral term like any other. The comment negative can be influenced by popular notion, certainly not in the world of science. Yes only asker knows whole context, so this well could be a right answer.
13時間
disagree Yasutomo Kanazawa : Sorry France-Japon, but I have to agree with what dunk wrote.
5日
agree Regz : No, "ghetto" is a neutral term. Any negative connotation associated with the word is simply the result of slang.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ghetto


5日
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+1
8時間

settlement area of migrants

started in a new settlement area of migrants in the vicinity of Istanbul. The project had an impact on health care status, particularly among ...
www.springerlink.com/index/R64N3J7W254V3768.pdf
Peer comment(s):
agree humbird : Yes "migrant" not "immigrant". Word settlement is very accurate and well used term in social science (which appears to be the paper's janre).
11時間
Thank You.
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+1
34分

concentrated area

集合地区と考えても差し支えなければこの訳ではどうでしょうか。
あえて「住」の意味を英語で加える必要はないように思います。

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Note added at 21 hrs (2009-08-14 17:24:13 GMT)
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I see that I should not have remove ”住” in the translation.
I agree with others suggesting use of words such as "migrant", "immigrant", "community" and "settlement".
Let me withdraw my answer.
Reference:

http://www.africamasterweb.com/AdSense/20illegalimmigrantsArrestedWisconsin.html

Peer comment(s):
agree Y. K.
18分
neutral humbird : なにがconcentrateしているのかの説明を文脈や説明に頼らねばならないでしょう。英語として物足りないと考えます。
6時間
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-1
4日

ghetto, slum, quarter

If immigrants, then I'd say ghetto.
If they are poor or living conditions are lacking, then slum.
It could also be quarter or district if something other than the ethnicity of its people is giving the area its character.
Peer comment(s):
disagree Yasutomo Kanazawa : Please see my comments entered for France-Japon's answer. Quarter would be a much better word.
1日 6時間
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